By Jonathan Monovich.

The story was so grounded in referencing other stories, other films, or other filmmakers, and I just wanted it to feel like something that’s existed for a long time. I didn’t necessarily want it to feel like something new.”

Olmo Schnabel’s writing/directorial debut, Pet Shop Days (originally titled Pet Shop Boys), is exhilarating, gritty, and full of adrenaline. A gut-punch to the senses, Schnabel’s vision is sure to shock viewers. The film feels like a spiritual extension of the Safdie Brothers’ chaotic oeuvre and displays the introductory work of budding potential. Following his work as a producer on Giants Being Lonely (2019), a baseball bildungsroman, Schnabel’s transition to the director’s chair attempts to fill a void while also covering uncharted territory. With Martin Scorsese onboard as Executive Producer, the film feels like the continuation of an ongoing passing of the torch between New York’s greatest filmmaker and young talented visionaries. At the least, it is an impressive cosign and a signal that Olmo Schnabel is a name that you will be hearing more of in the future. Though set in the present, Pet Shop Day’s visual cues and feel strive to be reminiscent of New York City’s grimy/graffiti-coated past that Fran Lebowitz and the original punk rockers often reminiscence about. This fascination for blending New York’s past with the present likely stems from his father, Julian’s, experience in the late seventies/early eighties as a young painter on the rise in the Big Apple prior to his acclaimed film career [Basquiat (1996), Before Night Falls (2000), The Diving Bell and the Butterfly (2007), Lou Reed: Berlin (2008), Miral (2010), and At Eternity’s Gate (2018)]. In the vein of Scorsese, Abel Ferrera, and William Friedkin, Pet Shop Days recalls commotion, terror, and trepidation. It’s not an easy watch, and that’s very much by design.

The film is at times deeply disturbing and has the sensibilities of the brutal troubled youth films of the past like Over the Edge (1979), Out of the Blue (1980), and Kids (1995). Following the endangering escapades of Alejandro (Dario Yazbek Bernal) and Jack (Jack Irv), Pet Shop Days offers an exploration of youthful angst, confusion, and unawareness of the world. Alejandro’s troubles paired with Jack’s naivety make for a dangerous combination. They meet at Jack’s place of work, a pet shop, and from there things quickly spiral out of control. Simultaneously, Jack’s parents, Francis (Willem Dafoe) and Diana (Emmanuelle Seigner), as well as Alejandro’s, Castro (Jordi Mollà) and Karla (Maribel Verdú), contribute to family drama in different ways. Jack and Alejandro certainly don’t help the situation with their outrageous reactions. They both have difficulty navigating the frustrations of their households, and attempt to cope via a rapidly-paced relationship defined by problems and poor behavior. Like the song that binds the film’s narrative together, “West End Girls,” Jack and Alejandro eventually fall into the same type of “dead end world” that the Pet Shop Boys describe. Before the film’s U.S. premiere at the 59th Chicago International Film Festival, I had the opportunity to speak with Olmo Schnabel about Pet Shop Days’ style, screenplay, cinematography, cast and crew, themes, and soundtrack.

Thank you for taking some time to talk with me, Olmo! I’m excited to talk about Pet Shop Days with you.

Of course! I’m happy to be in Chicago and am excited to show the film again. The world premiere at the Venice Film Festival was only a month and a half ago, but it already feels like a really long time ago. I’m also excited to see how people respond to the film on this side of the world. That to me is really important, because I’m from New York. I think it’s important to see how people respond to the film in the U.S and see what kind of legs the film has here. I think that’s going to be a completely new experience, so I’m excited about it.

One of the first things I wanted to ask you about is your decision to shoot on film. I thought that worked particularly well for Pet Shop Days. Also, I think it’s important to point out that Jack and Alejandro’s relationship builds on the question “do you like movies.” Your passion for cinema is apparent throughout Pet Shop Days and the characters’ passion for cinema is also important. For example, you see Jack watching your father’s film, Basquiat, and Jack/Alejandro watching The Beach Bum (2019) at the Alpine Cinema. Can you please talk about both your choice in shooting on film and this conscious postmodern/referential aspect of the movie?

Olmo Schnabel - IMDb

For sure! I think that when we were thinking about making the movie and how we wanted it to look, I wasn’t really excited about New York in 2023. Even though the film takes place now, I wanted it to feel timeless. If you gave me the choice to shoot digital or film, I’d pick film every time. People like to say you can do the same thing with either, but I don’t necessarily feel like that’s true. The story was so grounded in referencing other stories, other films, or other filmmakers, and I just wanted it to feel like something that’s existed for a long time. I didn’t necessarily want it to feel like something new. I think that whenever you see some of the references to these other films, I wanted to deal with certain things with a certain sense of humor. Some people might think I want to deny the fact that my father is a filmmaker, but I love Basquiat and Before Night Falls is one of my favorite films I’ve ever seen. That movie, in particular, was super influential for me. When we were thinking about what movies to have on the TV, I said “let’s just have Basquiat there and we could have the scene where they’re on the street.” You also see the daily bodega that they’re standing near. By the end of Pet Shop Days, Jack and Alejandro end up in a similar setting, so there’s kind of a prophecy there or subliminal messaging. Harmony [Korine] and I are also great friends. I’m a huge fan of his. I think he’s someone who really influenced me, and I love The Beach Bum. I thought it would be cool for them to watch The Beach Bum and give a nod to a film that I think is underrated. At that moment in the film, there’s all this crazy stuff happening, and that scene is particularly goofy. I thought it would be an interesting contrast to everything else that’s going on. I think the film has a lot of that. You have comedic elements and some really serious aspects. I think the movie is playful. I’m open to play, and I think we took what we were doing seriously but we don’t take ourselves too seriously.

Your choice in covering all that ground and incorporating those specific elements is very well thought out. Something else that I noticed is that the film’s narrative is built a lot around the pet shop. Besides Jack working there and the film’s title, there’s also the radio contest where the trivia question’s answer is “West End Girls” by the Pet Shop Boys. As I was watching the film, I was thinking about how relevant a lot of the lyrics from different Pet Shop Boys songs like “It’s a Sin,” “Opportunities,” “So Hard,” “What Have I Done to Deserve This,” “Heart,” and of course “West End Girls,” are to the themes of the film. These songs align with the narrative of the film, so I was wondering were you and Jack Irv consciously listening to Pet Shop Boys music a lot while crafting the screenplay?

I think Jack must have been listening to them a lot. I’m a fan of the Pet Shop Boys, and I was listening to a lot of music while working on the film like New Order, Joy Division, etc. We were also watching a ton of different movies by Werner Herzog, Rainer Werner Fassbinder, and Marty Scorsese. In its conception, we were all over the place and indulging in a lot of different things, but I wasn’t too referential to the Pet Shop Boys. It’s funny because the moderator at Venice asked me the same thing, so I guess you guys know more about the Pet Shop Boys than I do [laughs]. I think that’s interesting, though, because “West End Girls” was always a part of that scene and is a catalyst for Jack and Alejandro’s relationship when he wins the money over the radio. From there, they go on the roof of that building, Alejandro asks “do you like movies,” Jack says “yeah, I like movies,” and then it takes off from there. I think it’s interesting. Maybe unconsciously there is a lot more there that’s apparent and more relatable to the Pet Shop Boys music than I even know. It might be an aspect of the movie where I’m more of a stranger. It makes me excited that there’s an aspect of it that’s still kind of uncharted territory for me. Sorry I couldn’t really tell you if I was referencing their specific songs/lyrics, but Jack maybe could and I guess at some moment he’ll be able to answer that question.

Something else that I was immediately reminded of during the opening credit sequence with the montage of New York City and the contrast between the skyscrapers/the interiors of the pet shop was the cinematography of the Safdie Brothers’ films. In particular, Uncut Gems (2019), Good Time (2017), and Heaven Knows What (2014)came to mind. I then looked it up after watching the film and saw that the cinematographer, Hunter Zimny, worked on the photography for two of the three and Abel Ferrara’s The Projectionist (2019). I think that the Josh and Benny Safdie, Ferrara, and Executive Producer, Martin Scorsese, are all well known for their distinct visions of New York City. Could you please discuss your experience collaborating with these creatives and your distinct vision of New York City?

I’m constantly taking in the work of Josh and Benny [Safdie], Abel [Ferrara], Marty [Scorsese], and Francis Ford Coppola. I think as New Yorkers we have our own ideas or things that we’re attracted to. I think it’s a city that we’ve seen a lot, and it’s constantly being reinterpreted in film and in art. I think by the time I had the opportunity to make Pet Shop Days, I thought it was really important for me. I think when you’re watching the movie, you can say “oh, that looks like something,” but I think there are also aspects that are unique to the neighborhoods that I spent time in. In terms of being original or not original, I think we’re all just sponges taking stuff in. There’s things that we consciously do, and also things that unconsciously affect us as well. I think that for me it was really important to create a story about New York, and I think that Pet Shop Days feels like an original New York story especially with the storyline in Mexico. We go in and out of Mexico in a specific way, and when we wrote the script I knew exactly where the movie would take place. I knew the locations, so when it came to doing the location scouting I did most of it. I knew exactly what it was supposed to look like and where it was supposed to be. I didn’t have any questions or ambiguities about that. I knew exactly where Alejandro should be sleeping in his car under the train or where he and Jack should be kissing in Central Park. My instincts told me what was right and what was wrong. I think that something special about New York is that the community of filmmakers is small, so you’re bound to overlap and work with other people. It’s a pretty close knit community, which also makes it really nice because you have access to working with great filmmakers. I got to collaborate with people that I really respected, and I don’t know how I would have been able to make the movie without them. Obviously, I’ve seen New York in many different ways, so that was a challenge and something that we were aware of in trying to make the film look like the New York that we love in film and something original. For those shots of the buildings at the beginning of the movie, we had access to the Chrysler Building for twenty four hours. We got on a terrace, shot as much as we could, and said “we’ll see how we can use this.” That ended up being the opening credit sequence. At the beginning, I remember Galen [Core] said to me, “you’re just going to go up there for a day?”, and I said “of course; we’ll shoot the city and it’ll look great.” I think your question points out that making an original New York movie is a challenge in itself and it’s very difficult to do that. We definitely set out to do something grounded in what we love but also something that’s refreshing.

I think that you certainly achieved that balance. At the core of the film, I think it’s largely about the confusion of youth as well as the difficulty of parenting. There’s confusion for both the kids and the adults, and I think the film shows the tragedy that can result from this confusion. Two of the lines that really stuck out to me were when the priest says to Alejandro’s father that “children are the biggest test that God gives us” and when Jack’s father says “I’m not sure if he’s lazy or depressed” to which his mother replies “he’s just figuring it out.” To me, these lines sum up the film to a degree. Can you talk about working with the film’s impressive cast of actors as well as the theme of confusion throughout the movie?

I think that the movie speaks to the human condition. There’s the expression you can’t pick your family, but you can pick your friends. What I wanted to talk about was that no one’s perfect, and I think we see that here. When you’re a kid, you grow up with this idea that your parents are perfect, and everything they say is right. I think it’s a pretty confusing moment when you realize that was all a lie. It’s a part of growing up. It’s a part of stepping into your own and becoming an independent person when you realize that you need to figure out your life by yourself. Obviously, that happens in very normal ways and it’s part of the human condition. In this particular story, everybody is lost, everyone is figuring it out, everyone is taking each other for granted, and everyone is selfish. We see a group of people, and I think what we experience is that everyone’s trying to figure out how to be happy. In the process of looking out for themselves, they let other people fall through the cracks. Alejandro and his mother clearly love each other, but who knows if that love is healthy. What does that do to you, and what does that do to a young man or the son/daughter of someone? I think we’re constantly trying to do our best, but sometimes our best isn’t enough.

I think that we need to accept that everyone is going through the same thing together, and it’s not easy. That’s something that the movie has that’s universal. A lot of people experience difficult family dynamics like this. Life is an experiment and time is the only thing that’s telling. I think that’s why you get wiser as you’re older. When you’re young, you make mistakes, and that’s what life’s about. It’s a process of trial and error, learning from the mistakes you make, and hopefully making better from that instead of repeating the same thing over and over again. To go back to your other part of the question, working with all of these people is a dream come true. To work with Willem Dafoe, Emmanuelle Seigner, Maribel Verdú, and Peter Sarsgaard, I felt like I was just witnessing something happen that wasn’t real. I think that’s why I could do it, because it was something that was already so radical to be able to experience that. It was so amazing to work with people that I had grown up watching. If you would’ve asked the thirteen/fourteen year old me if I’d ever direct a movie with any of those actors, I would have told you that you’re crazy and that it would never happen. Once it was there, I just had to run with it because all of a sudden a dream came true. There were no expectations and things were just happening, so I had to be in the present and go with the flow of things. Everyone was very generous and supportive, and I hope to continue to work with actors like that. Everyone was there for the movie and to support us, and I think we all felt the love. The movie is an act of love, and I think you can feel that even in the midst of all the dirty/crazy stuff that happens.

That’s very well said! I also wanted to discuss the camera work in the film. The camera is rarely ever still and there is a lot of movement. There are also a lot of close-ups in the film, and I think the pairing of these two elements adds a quality of realism and a dreamlike quality at the same time. Were you stylistically thinking of this line between reality and fantasy?

Yeah, I think that’s correct. The movie needed to have this balance between fantasy and reality, and that’s the best version of New York. Things are moving, it’s intense, it’s consuming you, and I wanted the city to be a character in itself. I think the camera embodies the consuming, overwhelming, and claustrophobic feeling of the city. I wouldn’t necessarily say that’s my style, but it made sense for this movie. On my next film, it could look completely different. For this movie, I thought it was appropriate for the story we were telling and the energy that we were trying to capture. It was the most impactful way to tell this story. When we go to Mexico, the camera is obviously a lot different. Things are on sticks and more stationary, so you have this contrast where it feels like there’s these two different movies happening. That was an idea that I consciously had. Who knows if it was the right or wrong idea, but it’s something that I wanted to play with. I wanted to isolate both of these different places to make them contrast even more, but I definitely think that’s how New York needs to feel. I find it hard when New York is shot in a different way. Abel [Ferrara], Josh, and Benny [Safdie], obviously shoot New York in a similar way. There are rules, but you need to be flexible. I think you need to be flexible in New York, especially with a story like this one where anything can happen. I didn’t have any preconceived notions and it was more about how to do it instead of the right way to do it. I wanted to be able to go with the flow. We obviously planned a lot, but I also wanted to be open to improvisation and the spontaneity of New York City. There were also a lot of times when something would happen where we would lose a location and people were bummed out, but then we would just find something better. The alternative, or the other, always needs to improve. We were never compromising ourselves, and I never wanted to feel compromised. I saw things like this as opportunities, and we just had to treat it like that.

I wanted the city to be a character in itself. I think the camera embodies the consuming, overwhelming, and claustrophobic feeling of the city. I wouldn’t necessarily say that’s my style, but it made sense for this movie.”

That makes a lot of sense. I also wanted to mention that your father has a great taste in music in his films, and I think that’s rubbed off on you. The music in Pet Shop Days is great with “Make No Mistake” by Keith Richards and “Joey” by Concrete Blonde. Can you talk a little bit about your process for how you select music for your films?

I agree that Julian has incredible taste. The soundtrack for both Basquiat and Before Night Falls are incredible. I listened to those soundtracks with my friends a lot when I was growing up. I would always think to myself, “how the hell did he pull that off,” but he always has a way of pulling things off. I think I tried to do something similar, but I don’t think I’m quite as good at rallying the troops in the way that he did. He manages to put together the most insane playlists for his films (at least for those two). Obviously Marty Scorsese’s films also have incredible soundtracks. They might be the best out of anybody. I really wanted to do that with Pet Shop Days. When we were writing, we were listening to music. When we were filming, we were also listening to music. When we were editing, we were constantly listening to music. That was a big thing. I had ideas for songs and as I was editing, we’d see if it worked or not. If it clicked, it was first thought/best thought. There were also a couple songs that were already in the script. The Keith Richards song was always there, and I always knew that I wanted that there. The same goes for Concrete Blonde. The rest came after we got to the end of the edit. We had a couple placeholders, and we looked for songs that were similar to ones that we wanted but couldn’t afford. Music is extremely important to me, and a lot of my favorite films have amazing soundtracks. I would like to continue to do this with certain types of films that I would like to make. Some films that I might end up making might also not have any music, but I think this film really needed it. The music provided energy and the tone of the film has a nice relationship with the music that’s in it. There were a lot of songs that I also wanted to have in the movie that I couldn’t include. Hopefully one day I have an opportunity to throw some other songs in there, but that’s another conversation. Overall, I’m very happy with the soundtrack. It was actually funny, though, because there’d be a song that we wanted to use and then we’d need to replace it and that song would actually be better than the original. You need to be open, and you can’t be too bogged down by an idea. The moment you give yourself the opportunity for something else, the element of surprise is always great. Me and my collaborators at this moment are constantly learning and growing. That’s what the experience gave to us. It’s a great experiment and a learning curve. I don’t know how I’ll do it, but I know my next film won’t be anything like this first film.

I’ll wrap it up with this last question. The Chicago International Film Festival obviously marks a big milestone for you with the U.S. premiere of Pet Shop Days. Also, Memory (2023), which you helped produce, is being screened at the festival and Peter Sarsgaard is going to be presented a Career Achievement Award tonight. How does it feel and are there any future projects that you’re already starting to think about?

I have a couple things in my arsenal right now. I need to see what makes sense first, but there a couple projects that I’m working on. They’re all very different. I’m also currently producing a film of my father’s right now in Italy called In the Hand of Dante. I just came from there. It’s a film that my father has been developing and working on for the last ten years. I’m excited and curious to see how people respond to Pet Shop Days tonight. It’s been super nice to talk to you. I also spoke to some journalists before you today, and I hope people feel similarly to how you guys feel. It’s really important to me that the film survives in the U.S. Obviously it was shown at the Venice Film Festival, which was great. It’s a very important film festival and it was a dream come true, but the movie takes place here in America. I want to connect with people universally, but I’m really curious to see how the American youth responds to the film especially at a time like this where things are so censored. I’m not trying to do anything to ruffle people’s feathers, but I know the film definitely pushes some people’s limits. I think that some people will agree with it, and some people won’t. I think some people will also enjoy aspects of that where there could be parts that they like, parts that they don’t like, and that the film kind of challenges them. I’m super excited! I think this feels like another beginning for the film. I think Venice was great, but I think this for me will be very telling to see what happens moving forward. I’m also super proud of Michel Franco, Jessica Chastain, and Peter Sarsgaard with Memory. I feel very lucky to be a part of that project. I did that right before I did this, and being a part of that really helped me to prepare for Pet Shop Days. Ultimately, I’m super grateful to have been a part of that because I think it was instrumental in order to do this.

Jonathan Monovich is a Chicago-based writer and Image Editor for Film International, where he regularly contributes. His writing has also been featured in Film Matters, Bright Lights Film Journal, and PopMatters.

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