By William Blick.
Speed is a huge advantage in live action. Animation is time consuming, and if you ask an animator to rework a scene, it can take days, maybe even weeks for a few seconds.”
–Richard Bazley
Richard Bazley has had an illustrious career in animation beginning with his journey on the groundbreaking animation/live action hybrid, Who Framed Roger Robert? Since then, he has won Emmy awards and has completed animation on many high-profile Disney films such as Hercules (1997), Tarzan (1999), and Pocahontas (1995). He was also the lead animator on the iconic, animated film The Iron Giant (1999).
In recent years, Bazley has made his foray into live action films with two award-winning shorts: Censure (2022) and Confines (2023). Censure is filmed in grainy black and white, while Confines uses color; both use limited actors and embrace claustrophobic settings. The results are staggeringly emotional stories that hit full force with their stark, atmospheric cinematography, finely honed dialogue, and haunting imagery.
I was able to catch up with Richard on Zoom regarding his animation career and transition to live action films, which have been featured at several film festivals and received fantastic reviews:
What inspired you to want to start a career in animation?
When I was 10 years old, I got a book called The Disney Films written by Leonard Maltin. I used to pour over the illustrations even though they were black and white as well as the photos of Disney World. My mother told me you had to be rich to go there. I should add this was before the age of cheap packaged flights to Miami. That planted a seed at an early age. Little did I know that less than 20 years later I would be working at Disney as a Lead Animator. I was able to take my Mum and 5 other guests to the theme part at Disneyland for free fulfilling a childhood dream.
You were involved with the making of Who Framed Roger Rabbit? (1988) which was considered very innovative and pioneering for its time. How did you come to get involved in that?
It was my first ever job in film. I was working as a Junior Art Director at an advertising agency, but wasn’t feeling fulfilled. Then I saw an advert in a paper by Disney saying that they had set up in Camden London. It was because Dick Williams the Canadian but London based Animation Director was based there and they wanted him especially. I was one of thousands that applied at the bottom level. I did an in-between test, which is where you do drawings in between the main key drawings by the animator. I was then asked to do a 10-week evening class, which I did and was subsequently hired.
Coming from an animation background, were there many surprises or challenges in working in live action? What were they?
There are certainly similarities, but also some big differences. Speed is a huge advantage in live action. Animation is time consuming, and if you ask an animator to rework a scene, it can take days, maybe even weeks for a few seconds.
On a live action shoot as a director, I can ask an actor to do another take again and again. Stanley Kubrick certainly wouldn’t be suited to animation as he would often push the performer to do a hundred takes!
Storyboarding is very different. After Disney, I went on to do a lot of storyboarding for TV Series where the animation is frequently done overseas. Therefore, the storyboards need to be very comprehensive so that the animators who are not in the same studio can follow quite detailed instructions. Of course, at Disney, it wasn’t as extreme as all the artists were in the same building but the storyboards would still be many more panels than in Live Action. Except for say sequences in Live Action that require complex CGI or even CG characters such as a Planet of the Apes film. On the smaller Indie films, I prefer to get a balance and do beat boards, which set up the scenes nicely, and a shot list to hand. I don’t need excessive panels and as I have a great rapport with my cinematographer. I also like to leave a little room to experiment sometimes.
What can you say about the Disney experience? What is your favorite Disney film?
It was an incredible experience and I think I hit it at just the right time a bit like a surfer catching a wave. 2D animation after The Lion King (1994) was hot, Dreamworks had just set up and we (Classical 2D Animators) were hot property. That of course all changed when Pixar’s Toy Story (1995) came out. Nevertheless, I am forever grateful for the experience in so many ways. It was like being at a University. We had free Life Drawing classes every lunchtime with the best instructors you could get. Steve Huston, Glenn Vilppu and the charismatic Walt Stanchfield. We also had lunchtime lectures on filmmaking on every film subject possible. Chris Vogler for example who wrote the essential book for scriptwriters, The Hero’s Journey.
I have so many favorite films from Disney. Probably, The Jungle Book (1967) as it was a film I saw again and again as a child. It made a big impact and to meet all the old veterans, or “The Nine Old Men,” as Disney would call them, was very special. Of course, they had all retired but I was still able to pick their brains and making films.
I bumped into Ollie Johnston in La Canada at my local post office one day and said to him “They don’t make them like they used to do” and he agreed and he said the problem is they don’t develop the characters enough. In animation, that is where the charm is. Look at the sequence with Baloo the Bear and Moglee. We get a chance to see them bond. It is full of what animators call ‘business’ where characters are doing stuff while talking. Baloo has an itchy back and pulls out a tree to scratch it. That wouldn’t have been in the script, that would have come out of the storyboarding process. “They concentrate so much on the story they forget the characters,” he repeated. All these gems of information stuck in my head along with lots of other conversations with the veterans.
Any comments on The Iron Giant experience and working with Brad Bird?
What is interesting is that Brad too had learned from “The Nine Old Men” at Disney. As they all started to retire, a new regime came in and Brad felt that the quality was going downhill. He was so vocal about it he was fired! He even made a short film about the incident!
The Iron Giant was the best-animated film I had worked on and a privilege to have been there. I had pitched the same book called “The Iron Man” by Ted Hughes to Don Bluth many years ago, in fact 9 years before Brad had even heard of it. Don turned it down saying it is only a Featurette. So years later when I was at Disney a friend called and informed me that they were developing it at Warner Bros and that Brad Bird wanted me to come over.
Brad is quite a character and very vocal. With his feet up on a desk, he said if I wanted to keep doing the same old musical repeatedly to stay at Disney. Or if I wanted to help make a film that broke the mold to join him. Well he talked me into it and never regretted it! I learned a lot from Brad and look what he has gone on to do. Ratatouille, The Incredibles and much more.
The Iron Giant is a beloved film. Why do you think it is so effective?
I think Brad Bird too had listened to Ollie Johnston. There is a key scene where Hogarth is sitting down with The Giant showing him his comic collection and bonding. He points to Robotron “That is a bad guy” he says. Then he points to Superman and says “That’s Superman! He’s a good guy”. It registered with the Giant, but we don’t realize it yet. So when we get to the later scenes where he flies off to save the Village and sacrifices himself by flying into the bomb he says “Superman” and we know he is about to die. It always brings tears to people’s eyes. I remember going to a test screening in Beverly Hills and hearing the reaction. I could hear one man saying that it didn’t feel like a kids film as he was quite clearly moved. How many Hollywood Animated movies do that!
What role do you think AI will play in films both animated and live? Do you think it is something to be embraced?
It is a hot topic and for a reason. The genie is out of the bottle and there is no stopping it so it is how we deal with it.
Your latest live action films, Confines and Censure appear rather bleak. Both films deal with alienation and isolation. Where did the ideas and mood come from? It seems they are a far cry from Disney animation- would you agree?
Yes, both are dark. Although Confines finishes on an up note as he delivers his final lines, we realize that he is going to be reunited again with his daughter as mentally having gone through his mental trauma he is in a better place.
The idea for Censure came out of lockdown.
We had been under a lot of restrictions, and I wanted to figure out a way to make a film under those conditions. So, I talked with my long-term collaborator screenwriter Neil Bason about an idea I had where the main actor is the focus, and all other actors are offscreen. We wouldn’t be breaking any of the rules that were in operation at the time. When the Covid restrictions were over I still thought it was a good idea, so we made it anyway. Sometimes the most creative ideas are born from limitations. I really believe that necessity really is the mother of invention.
So sometimes the ideas come from practicality.
In the case of Confines, we had an extremely tight budget so once again I brainstormed with Neil Bason to see how we could make a film on such a small budget. I had passed The Blind House in my village hundreds of times and occasionally they leave it open to the public with an information board up about its history inside. It occurred to me that it would be a great location for a character to deliver a dramatic dialogue. There is a small grill up high where I could picture a small amount of light filtering through casting a shadow of bars. Actor Luke F. Dejahang had approached me about making a film as he had seen Censure and loved it, he effectively financed the film with some hard cash, and the team did also by taking minimum fees.
My films are very removed from the family friendly films I used to work on as an Animator at Disney. When I left LA and returned to the UK the bulk of my work was storyboarding in a children’s television series.
Sometimes board artists will do upwards of a thousand drawings in a couple months on a 20-minute episode. I would have done thousands and thousands of drawings all on projects that mainly I had no passion for. TV Series for children is mainly fodder and people just want to plonk their kids down for a bit of peace. There is no real substance to most of them. There are exceptions and I was extremely proud to have directed the TV pilot, Lost Treasure Hunt, which was for an older teen audience and had an educational element. But that was an exception so when I got the chance at last to make my own films I wanted to move away from that type of storytelling and tell stories that meant something to me.
Specifically, the names of the main character’s wife and child are “Hope” and “Faith” in the film Confines. Are these key themes in this film, or is it a loss of them?
Yes, the names “Hope” and “Faith” are themes in Confines and those names were the idea of Neil Bason- just many of the great ideas he had for the film. The protagonist, in fact, does regain “Hope” and “Faith” at the end of the film. Having gone through his mental journey he has found the exercise cathartic and having faced his demons can face the world again and pulls himself back literally from the brink.
There are other themes of loss and guilt. In making the film I gave those a visual representation; interestingly after his breakdown where he crumbles in a heap on the floor at the maze, the crow flies off showing us that his guilt has gone away following his breakdown.
The term “censure” refers to harsh judgment or extreme disapproval. In Censure, what are you trying to convey about the judgement of others and particularly of Richard’s behavior? You also have Richard’s father expressing to Richard that the world is highly “toxic” when in fact it is his family that is toxic. What were you trying to say about toxicity and hypocrisy in the current state of the world?
Yes, there is a political commentary here. Richard is an interesting one as he is not the one berating him, yet he allows his new family to do so. In many ways we are all guilty of our complicity. We only hear from the militants, the protesters. Many people have thoughts and beliefs but for a simple life or fear of being attacked. The world certainly is a toxic place as his family are in this case.
Toxicity and hypocrisy will never disappear. It has always been here and will always be there no matter what. We can try and make things better but all these things, good or bad and everything in between, are part of the human condition. On the plus side it will always give filmmakers material to tell stories. Stories and films need conflict. Imagine if a film started happily and ended happily. It would be completely boring.
David Lynch interestingly says you do not have to suffer to show suffering in film. I would say that part of the human condition is suffering. We feel pain as soon as we enter the world at birth and come into this world kicking screaming and crying! We are under constant attack throughout our lives from colds, viruses, illnesses and more. So, we suffer to some degree always without even being aware of it. Our bodies fight back and are designed to fight back. Therefore, when we make films we have a whole awareness of suffering to draw from already.
Connor Wulfric delivers a spectacular performance. There is a vulnerability about him amplified by a string stutter which he later loses for a moment to deliver an impactful speech to his father. I was extremely lucky also to get the talents of Academy Nominee Tom Conti. His voice oozes character.
Why did you choose not to show the other actors on screen in Censure?
Covered partly in an earlier question but will make some additional comments. Unlike David Lynch whom I admire and like hugely, I don’t mind giving thoughts and personal interpretations. Lynch believes it can give away some of the magic of a film and maybe he has a point. So, if there are any spoilers here, I would say move on to the next section to read and watch the films first then read afterwards.
There are a few ways Censure can be interpreted, and I am okay with audiences having different interpretations. The voices are offscreen as he is going through a breakdown, and they are all in his head. Events that have played out before but are played over again and again in his mind. I also wanted to “a reveal” at the end and by not showing them, we find out what happens to them in the final act.
In Confines, you have a strong inner monologue that drives the film. It is comparable, in my opinion, to Notes from Underground by Dostoevsky or Travis Bickle in Taxi Driver or furthermore to Hamlet’s “to be or not to be” soliloquy. The character is close to madness. Would you agree? Why did you choose to use a singular monologue to propel the narrative?
Monologues delivered well are extremely powerful. It is acting in its purity: no hiding with tricks. Yes, Taxi Driver and Hamlet are great comparisons and great company to be in. Other monologues come to mind such as Mel Gibson’s Braveheart or Jack Nicholson’s amazing delivery in A Few Good Men.
I had seen Luke F. Dejahan’s show reel and in one film, he too delivered a very powerful speech. Therefore, I knew what he was capable of. I had briefed the screenwriter Neil Bason to write a monologue as I wanted to film it in The Blind House. When I received the final draft, I knew we had something special. It felt almost Shakespearean and Luke had a Richard Burton feel to his work. The character is certainly close to madness and the intensity of Luke’s performance is captured beautifully onscreen by the magnificent cinematography of John E. Fry
The edit in Confines was beautifully crafted by Jay Cox. The trick was how to make an interesting film when basically your character is just sitting down and talking? We were able to add lots of additional elements and locations to add interest including shots at The Cheddar Gorge, Corsham Court and the Amazing Hedge Puzzle in Ross-On-Wye.
Music is almost a character in itself in Censure. The score is by Noise In Your Eye, which is Adrian Chivers and Daniel Pennie and an ensemble of musical artists including Nick Mason of Pink Floyd.
In Confines, we decided to make the music lower key with a series of soundscapes, which complement the monologue beautifully.
On a final note, who are some of your influences and what are some of your favorite films?
Ridley Scott is a big one for me. Alien is such an incredible film. It was made without CGI and he did such a fabulous job. Definitely, Ken Loach and his kitchen sink dramas…you know…barebones. Also, David Lynch films. I loved that he could do what he could do. John Boorman and his early films Excalibur and Hope and Glory. Kubrick I love the timing and pacing of his works. He could do things the way he could because he could get the big budget. The problem with Hollywood today is that they are chasing the dollar signs with sequels. I think that is where independent films and filmmakers come in.
William Blick is a film and literary/crime fiction critic; a librarian; and an academic scholar. His work has been featured in Senses of Cinema, Film Threat, Cineaction, and CinemaRetro, and he is a frequent contributor to Retreats from Oblivion: The Journal of Noircon. His crime fiction has been featured in Close to the Bone, Pulp Metal Magazine, Out of the Gutter, and others. He is an Assistant Professor/Librarian for the City University of New York.